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May 2012

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As you may recall I have suggested a "polling" understanding as a way to strengthen the lease wording on gambling. But any such vote would always require a 50% Plus approval before the board advanced the issue.

Based on your understanding, David, it appears that gambling could be advanced with only 17.5% of the homeowners voting positively. If I am right this is very wrong!

You first stated that a majority of the homeowners (3573) is required. That means that we have 7146 total homeowners. You then said " If less than a majority of all members return the ballot but at least 35 percent of members do participate, the Association reserves the right, IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION, to initiate these discussion with the tenant IF a majority of those 35 percent or more vote in favor of gaming".

So, 35% of 7146 is 2501 and 50% of 2501 is 1250. 1250 is just 17.5% of our homwowners - it makes no sense to allow gambling to be advanced with just a 17.5% approval.

Now, who came up with this fuzzy math - our board, Tirzo group, or our lawyer?

You are correct in your calculations, Ken, except that we have 7,144 homes.

When discussion took place at a prior meeting, it had been suggested that a failure to vote would be taken to be a "no" vote, which I think would be as unfair as taking a failure to vote to be a "yes" vote.

So....I'm surmising that the thinking --just my own opinion-- is that if people are not willing to take the time to vote, then only the votes of those who do take the time should be considered.

Yes, it would be 17.5 percent of ALL households in SCA, but it would still have to be 50 percent plus one of all voting households as long as at least 35 percent vote.

That's really no different from how our own Board elections are conducted. We never get 50 percent of our households to vote in a Board election, and we have some Board members elected with the votes of fewer than 17 percent of our households, which would be 1,215. I think many believe that if you don't care to vote at all, then your household should not be counted in any totals, but instead we should count only those that bother to vote.

Keep in mind how difficult it is to reach a threshhold which is too high. We have absentee owners who don't really care, bank-owned homes, etc., and right away that diminishes the numbers.

Like many in the community, my personal opninion is that I don't care whether we have gambling or not. I have doubts that the tenant will need those few gaming machines if he is doing a good job with the restaurant, with his liquor sales, and with his catering. The more he makes, the more SCA makes.

But if gambling ever came in, I seriously doubt that my lifestlye and certainly my enjoyment of Trumpets cuisine would be affected by the presence of some gaming machines embedded into the bartop as I walk into the restaurant.

I have a feeling that this whole thing will blow over. But suppose our community loves the restaurant and the catering so much that we don't want the operator to go out of business. Wouldn't it be reasonable to afford him at least the opportunity to try to make his case?

My concerns regarding the polling agreement are:

1. Will there be advance notice to residents of a tenant's decision to conduct a polling of residents and if such advance notice is required, what advance notice period before polling is conducted is required?
2. What communtity discussion would be required in advance of the tenant's polling of residents?
3. What discussion, if any, of pros and cons by concerned SCA residents would accompany such polling?
4. If the polling is not conducted by SCA then what assurance do residents have that the polling would be conducted properly and accurately?

Furthermore, what control does the SCA have over the tenant's conduct of gaming. I would be averse to anything that disrupts the residents' quiet enjoyment of this wonderful community ammenity. For example, as a customer of the bar or restuarant I would not enjoy any sounds coming from the audio system of a slot machine.

First I would be happy to count the votes.HAHA. However I think everyone should be concerned that the center will be opened 24 hours a day which will require security 24 hours a day to prevent people that are not members from wondering around the center. I know I am no longer a member however I think Sun City is the best place to live and someday i hope to return and do not want to see it change for the worse.

Brian:

Of course there would be "advance notice" of a poll, because the agreement would require Board involvement in the process, with discussion and votes at a public meeting.

What "community discussion" would you be suggesting, in view of the facts that the agreement will spell out the steps to be followed?

I'm sure the pros and cons would receive quite a thorough airing in the community.

The assurance of a proper and accurate polling process would be provided by (1) the requirement that the Board must approve the wording of the "ballot," and, based on a discussion at the recent meeting, it looks like the counting would be done by an independent firm.

If they ever put gaming in, I think it would be limited to a few quiet video pokers embedded into the bar. In my opinion, that's the full extent of it.

Joe: As you are a skilled supervisor of vote counting, maybe they SHOULD hire you for that purpose -grin!!

I don't think gaming here would be a 24-hour proposition. Operators who have the entry-level gaming license for 15 machines or fewer do not have to stay open around the clock. Two examples: The Willows Restaurant at MacDonald Ranch, which has video poker, is not a 24/7 operation. And Albertsons, one of our supermarkets which has video poker, now closes, I believe, at 1 a.m.

It is interesting to see that The Unity Team we all heard so much about during the board elections is certainly not unified. Now that the election is over everything changes. We can only hope residents will make different choices in the next election.


David, as you certainly know "Health Care" is currently dividing the country. And, I will guess that "Gambling" will now divide SCA at least for the coming year.

Is it true that Roz acknowledged at the 8/14 meeting that "Gambling" was a deal breaker? And, if so, why has this been "hidden" from SCA owners until now?

Again, if it is true, then based on the prior vote of SCA against gambling - we shold have just passed on the Tirzo group.

Like you, I willingly accept the vote of the majority. If SCA votes to have gambling then lets move on.

What I object to is a voting system that could allow just 17.5% to rule the day. Also, I politely disagree with your contention that it would be wrong to count missing votes as a vote against. The onus should be on those in favor to garner a 50% majority. In government it usually takes "x%" to pass something. Failure to reach that number is a "no" vote.

Incidentally, if gambling is a deal breaker, and if SCA again votes against it, then Tirzo is wasting his time - and our money - to open at all....

Thanks for providing a site where owners can debate openly. Knowledge is power - please continue to keep us informed.


Ken Kuhner's comments are an example of how my readers are free to express their opinions, whether they agree with me or not, as long as they are civil. Such diverse comments are always welcome.

Unfortunately, I have had to delete the latest comment from Forrest Fetherolf and have blocked him, for the time being, from posting to this blog. Mr. Fetherolf's comments were borderline defamatory, if not actual defamation, in several respects. It is clear to me that Mr. Fetherolf has been gradually pushing the envelope with undocumented accusations that have escalated in their severity, perhaps as a means of testing me. Until now, I have not questioned his freedom to express his opinions in strong terms, but at some point I need to protect myself with regard to allowing the publishing of defamatory material, and it is more prudent to block him for now instead of trying to nit-pick so many of his allegations with never-ending debates.

Mr. Fetherolf has at least three other blogs available to him where his accusations will undoubtedly be welcome, so he is not being denied the opportunity for outlets to express his opinions.

The fact that Mr. Fetherolf has a personal agenda is evidenced by his frequent practice of using the several blogs to post substantially the same comments that he posts here.

The bottom line that my readers have to remember is this: A blog, by definition, is a personal web log that generally reflects the outlook and opinions of its owner. The owner has the right to set the tone and control how the blog operates. This is called freedom of expression. I have taken the approach that my blog will be journalistically sound, focusing on the dissemination of information, along with my own opinions, and offering readers the opportunity to share in the discussions. I believe the major reason for my blog's comparative popularity -at least according to what many of my readers tell me- is that my competitors are focused less on sharing real news and information, and more on personal attacks and the spreading of falsities and half-truths. You may disagree with me on this perception, but, as I have stated here, it is my right as the owner to state that perception.

Seriously Mr. Berman, do you think Pepys would have kept a blog if he were alive today?

Kudos on your stated-intentions regarding your growing body of work. It is very easy for the audience to overlook our motivations for writing these things in the first place!

David:
In your editorial above, on two occasions you stated that the Polling Agreement (now changed to Memorandum of Understanding [MOU])was not a modification to the original lease agreement. The MOU reads:

"WHEREAS, the parties previously entered into a Lease Agreement ("Trumpets Lease") for leasing the Trumpets Restaurant space; and

WHEREAS, the parties agree to enter into a new agreement that may require certain modifications to the terms and conditions of the Lease Agreement; and

NOW THEREFORE, in consideration of the promises and mutual covenants herein the Parties agree to the following:"

Sounds like a modification to me.

Nelson, you are misinterpreting what you have accurately quoted.

The "Polling Agreement and Memorandum of Understanding," which is what I think they said the new title will be, does not modify the lease in any way. The lease stands on its own, unchanged.

What the language you quote is doing is acknowledging that the lease exists and also suggesting that at some point in the future, the lease might have to be modified if a decision is made, as the result of a poll and an Association decision, to allow gaming. That does not make it a modification of the lease, but as was explained at last week's meeting, it sets out the process that would be followed if the tenant does ask for a poll to consider gaming, which the tenant IS allowed to ask for under the lease terms.

If you don't understand that, I believe a lawyer could explain it to you. This is not verbal gymnastics, nor is it an overly clever use of words. It is a necessary document, NOT modifying the lease, to give SCA the assurances that any future poll/ballot or whatever you want to call it is conducted under certain guidelines that the parties will adhere to.

The bottom line, once again: This document is not a modification in any way. If you continue to believe that it is, then I don't think there would be any way to get you to understand it.

It is also important to note that the four Board members who voted in favor relied on the advice of their paid professional.

I am a retired editor (Sudbury Citizen, Mass. pop. 20,00) and elected school committee member, both of which positions had one in the line of fire from editorials and school comm. decisions from both sides. Have to say in retrospect it was a piece of cake from what I see my SCA board members dealing with - God Bless them all for being willing to serve.

MJH

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