Report: October 22 Town Hall Forum
The October 22 Board of Directors Town Hall Forum in Freedom Hall, attended by about 175 residents, was, for the most part, a respectful affair with really just one glaring exception that will be mentioned later. Henderson City Councilor Andy Hafen, whose district includes Sun City Anthem, was an invited guest at the meeting, sitting with the Board members at the front of the hall.
In reporting on audience questions and comments, I will give the names of the residents who spoke for those who said who they were or who I recognized. But a number of speakers did not give their names, or when they did I could not make them out, so in those cases they will be referred to as "a resident."
Many of the questions and comments concerned the pending application of a local church to lease Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land immediately to the west of Sun City Anthem's Westridge Village. A Board-led emergency meeting had been held earlier in the day, one result of which is that a volunteer group of residents who attended that meeting spent some time preparing comments on the subject for the Town Hall Forum in an effort to assure that the comments of one speaker would not be repeated by another.
Kay Frank was the first resident to comment. Referring to the fact that our CC&Rs require a vote of 90% of all SCA households to overturn an annual-budget recommendation, she said she wants to see the CC&Rs changed to make it easier to reject the proposed budget. She specifically asked if any Board members would support it.
Kay Frank's husband, Board member Bob Frank, said that we should make the effort, as difficult as it would be. Board member Kay Dwyer responded by pointing out how difficult it is to make such changes. Board member and Secretary Elaine Berg noted that no one likes to have their dues raised, but some increases after five years without raises are inevitable.
Responding to a resident's comment about the church's BLM application, Andy Hafen said he wasn't fully aware of what was happening until recently. "It starts with the federal government," he said, adding that the original proposal was for the Calvary Church to lease 15 acres and the LDS Church to lease 5 acres, but the LDS petition was withdrawn and Calvary raised its request to 20 acres. Hafen said the church is aware of public opposition. He said it was important for resident who object to the proposal to send letters to the BLM within the time frame which is now underway. He said the BLM does have the option to deny the request, so public opposition in substantial numbers could be effective. And because the church application is not just for a sanctuary but also for such things as a school day-care center, athletic fields, etc., public hearings could be scheduled on each component of the application, and residents could appear to oppose any or all aspects of the plan.
Suggesting that the land in question is on a flood plain, Bob Frank asked if the City of Henderson could pursue acquiring the land itself, using the flood-plan issue as the reason. But Hafen replied that the land is not currently deemed to be in a flood plain.
A resident disputed what Hafen said, stating that there are signs on the land that say it is part of a flood zone. "Why are we talking about building in a flood zone," he asked. Hafen replied that he will look into this situation.
Resident Jack Herlihy addressed the question of the land's location. "This is poorly located relative to some residential communities," he said, adding that the added traffic will greatly magnify safety issues. Finding land for the applicant along St. Rose Parkway would be a better solution, he said.
Bob Frank added that the queuing of mothers' vehicles along Volunteer when they are picking up their children from a church-run school would add to the problems the proposed development would create.
Resident Linda Krivec, who said she does not live in the affected area, said that she supports the objections of those who do. She said she would rather see the land dedicated to open space that would allow for non-active sports such as walking. She also asked if there have been recent meetings with representatives of Focus Property Group, developers of Inspirada, to discuss common issues. Board member Bob Berman said Focus Property Group had recently acknowledged that it had been a while since they visited SCA to address our residents, and he said they recognized that they should plan to make another presentation to us in the near future.
Resident Rana Goodman said, "We want an active lifestyle. We love our children and grandchildren, but that is not why we moved here." She said that in addition to the advice to write to the BLM, we should also go to the City with our concerns. "We have about 11,000 votes up here," she said, which drew an understanding nod from Councilor Hafen. And Hafen suggested that when resident write to the BLM, they should also send copies of their letters to the members of our Congressional delegation.
Reminding the audience of SCA's success with the heliport issue, Bob Berman said we can succeed if we stay focused.
Resident Bob Brill asked for a response to a rumor he heard that Trumpets restaurant had sustained $200,000 in damage. Board President Mike Dixon said there was some damage, but we don't yet know how much.
Resident Norman McCullough commented on the Board-meeting agendas. He asked why comments he has submitted and asked to be included with the minutes are not actually attached to them as requested. Board member and Treasurer Roz Berman said the attached comments are in the official Board Books. She said she will investigate and ask management to take steps to include the attachments with the minutes on the community website.
A resident of Highlands Village, who had been away for an extended period, described how his home was broken into, along with other homes in the neighborhood, and said his car was also stolen. He asked what is being done about this. Mike Dixon asked Security Patrol Chief Dave Servello to comment. Servello said investigations are being conducted. He said a vehicle used by suspected thieves was traced to a woman who said she "thought" her car had been stolen. Servello also put in a plug for a petition he has been circulating to drop the speed limits on our loop roads back down to 35 MPH from the current 45 MPH.
Bob Berman said statistics show that we are still in a low-crime area, acknowledging that this is irrelevant to those who have been victims of crime. He said much of the crime is related to construction in the area, as construction sites and nearby homes make tempting targets. "We must be ever alert and watch out for each other," he said. A resident added that he has been taking pictures of suspicious vehicles and people. Bob Frank urged residents to become involved with the Neighborhood Watch program. If they know a call is coming in from a Neighborhood Watch person, he said, the police will respond.
Big Sky Village resident Joan Fassaro(?), said some residents have observed a person or persons driving by homes and using a clicker device to open residents' garage doors.
Resident Marcia Kosterka described an incident in which some men found at the back of a home said they were painters, but it was clear that they were casing the home for possible robbery.
A resident said she lives in an area where a lot of traffic passes by on an adjacent road, creating a great deal of road noise. She said that while traveling in Utah, something mixed into the road-surfacing material seemed to make for quieter traffic. She asked why we can't do something like this here. Andy Hafen said he was not aware of such a technique, but that he would look into it.
Resident Tony Brunetta said that he has noticed what seems to be an unusual number of under-age people using the Fitness Center, and he asked if we can do something about it. Kay Dwyer replied that we have many younger persons living with age-qualified residents under permissible conditions, suggesting that the number of actual violations is small. Mike Dixon echoed Dwyer's comment, saying that our Enforcement Department monitors such situations, and the number of actual violations is minimal.
Suggesting that the concept of "democracy" is applied unevenly in SCA, resident Camille Brunetta expressed objection to being prevented from bringing anyone with her to examine documents that she had legally requested be provided to her for review. She cited a Nevada Revised Statutes section that permits the requester to bring other to the examination. Mike Dixon replied that the statute Mrs. Brunetta cited, NRS 116.3118, applies specifically to document reviews related to the purchase or sale of a home. Bob Frank said that he questioned this, and stated that an attorney should be consulted to interpret and explain the statutory language. Bob Frank said that he plans to have an item on the October 25 Board-meeting agenda regarding this subject.
Resident Ken Weiss advocated dropping the previously mentioned speed limits back to 35 MPH. He also said that while he expected dues to eventually increase, he was questioning why we need the pending third recreation center. "Can we back out of this deal?" he asked, a question that was met with some negative responses from the audience.
Bob Berman replied that the resident survey regarding Rec 3, the results of which showed a small majority preferring to cancel the project, was only one element of the process. "A critical issue for us," he said, "was when we confirmed that the developer's sales department had induced people to buy homes because of the promise that the third center would be built." Bob Frank added that former Board President Favil West and the Board never had the authority to cancel the project. He then got into a disagreement with Bob Berman when he said that lots in the general area of Rec 3 were smaller so as to have land available for the recreation center, an assertion that Bob Berman disputed.
Referring back to changes that had been made to the original SCA master plan, which included cancellation of a planned third golf course, a resident said the City should build trails for us in areas that had been intended for other purposes. Bob Berman said that the people involved with building Inspirada have said our residents will be permitted to utilize the extensive trail system being planned for that community.
Referring to a highly infectious and dangerous virus called MRSA (pronounced MER-suh) that has been of growing concern recently, Marcia Kosterka asked what we are doing to prevent infections arising out of activities in our Fitness Center. She said she had heard that we will no longer be providing sanitary wipes for residents to use on fitness equipment before beginning their workouts. Kay Dwyer replied that many people refused to use the wipes, and she said that while the wipes are being eliminated to save money, an equally effective but less expensive spray is being provided. Reporter's note: If you'd like to learn about MRSA, click here to visit an informative site.
A resident asked what happened to the commitment to provide SCA with a cogeneration plant. Bob Berman summarized the commitment that had been made. When the cost of gas made it financially impractical to have a cogen plant, he said, the developer, instead of giving us the $1.375 million for Association reserves, offered to spend part of that money to "green" the third recreation center in order to save us on future operating costs. Whatever is left over will be paid over for our reserves which will help mitigate dues increases.
A resident expressed the belief that real-estate brokers had purchased many SCA homes for investment purposes and that dues are not being paid on those homes, and he wanted to know what we are doing about it. This led to a discussion of of the difficulties of collecting monies due when a home is in foreclosure. As she did at several other points during the Forum, Kay Frank interrupted the discussion with shouted comments from the audience and expressions of disagreement with what was being said, relating mainly to the question of our ability to collect six months of unpaid assessments after a foreclosure.
A resident asked for information on the status of the Trumpets liquor license. He asked if a restaurant operator taking over Trumpets would have to apply for his own license. Mike Dixon said that Del Webb had originally purchased the license, then transferred it to S&D Cafe V when that corporation signed its lease to run Trumpets. It appears that S&D did not have the right to take the license with them because it was specific to the premises. Dixon said he believes we have four months to acquire a new Trumpets operator and transfer the license to that operator without paying a fee of $30,000. But Andy Hafen said he believes there is a statutory provision that would allow us up to a year to acquire a new operator without losing the license, so Mike Dixon said he would look into this immediately. Rana Goodman said she checked with the City and was told that we could get a new license for a fee of $30,000. Elaine Berg replied that Board members don't want to do this in the name of the Association, in part because the application is personally invasive of their individual privacy.
Resident Bob Sulliman said he is pleased by the set-up at the Fitness Center and believes there is only small risk of contracting an infection or virus. He also urged residents to turn out in greater number for upcoming elections so that our voices can be heard.
Resident Joan Patrick, who has had some participation with the Oversight Committee in the past, asked Andy Hafen who actually originated the Oversight Committee. Hafen said he was not sure, but that the City is always looking for a voice when there are important issues emanating from a community. Bob Berman, an original leader of the Oversight Committee, said that the City Council had commended our residents and the developer for working together to resolve disputes over proposed changes to the Anthem Master Plan. After this success, Berman said, Henderson Mayor Gibson thought it would be a good idea for a group of residents to continue as an oversight group that could interface with developers and the City. Reporter's Note: The creation of the Oversight Committee may have been at least partly justified at the time by the fact that the Board was controlled by the developer. But this changed when a resident-controlled Board took office in May, 2005.
Resident Sonny Sonnenfeld said that he believed our water quality is very poor, and he asked why we can't have better treatment of our water. Andy Hafen replied that our water is treated at a very high level, among the best-rated in the nation. He said that this is not the same as the problems caused by damage to fittings leading to the Kitec and Rehau problems, but he also acknowledged that he drinks only bottled water at home. Bob Frank added that issues such as this are why he continues to advocate Board approval of a defects advisory group.
Resident Donna Dickey asked if approved consultants are being used for the third recreation center. She asked how residents can get involved, and she asked what level of "greening" would be incorporated in the facility. Bob Berman replied that it would be a high level of greening but not the very highest due to prohibitive costs. A "specialty architect" has been working on green aspects of the building, he said. Final grading is being done and the current completion target is late July or early August. He said he hopes to learn what the cost of the greening will be within a week or so, after which we may know what amount, if any, will be available to go into our reserves.
Linda Krivec said that the four ACE-endorsed Board candidates committed to work to abolish the Oversight Committee, citing the exact words in a campaign brochure for which she and this reporter were the primary authors. She then specifically asked if Favil West was still in charge of the Oversight Committee. Bob Berman seemed to avoid answering the question, but Krivec continue to repeat it until Berman answered with a simple "yes." Andy Hafen then said that if the Board of Directors and the Oversight Committee made recommendation to the City on a subject, the City would listen more to the Board as the elected representatives of our residents.
A resident asked for clarification of the process used to collect arrearages on residential properties. "What are we doing about it," he asked. He added that he drew an inference from earlier comments that we would not issue and record default notices.
When Kay Dwyer began to reply that the Association tries to collect on defaults prior to a foreclosure, Kay Frank grabbed the microphone away from someone who was holding it and yelled out in disagreement, cutting Dwyer off. Bob Frank then cut his wife off, saying, "I can handle this."
Mike Dixon explained the lien and foreclosure process, distinguishing between delinquencies related to unpaid dues and those related to unpaid fines/penalties, each category being treated differently.
Residents Ken Andersen and Bob Tank, who are involved with efforts to obtain official approval for a technology and defects advisory group, then spoke on that subject. Tank asked why the Board hasn't taken the lead to sort out the plumbing issues for the benefit of homeowners. Bob Frank responded that he believes the Board has this obligation.
Andersen stated his belief that the homes with Rehau are being replumbed incorrectly, as are new homes that are still being built. He said that the previously planned approach of obtaining insurance coverage for his group through the Association is now deemed inappropriate. Rather, he advocated bringing in expert outside consultants at a total cost of about $10,000. He asked Mike Dixon if he would endorse the suggestion, and Dixon replied that he couldn't endorse it on the spot because Andersen had just "hit me with it."
Resident Nancy Schnair said she was appalled to learn from reading Ron Johnson's online publication that the current Rehau fixes would not do the job in the long run. She asked why she had to read this information "on a blog" instead of receiving it directly from Pulte. In addition, she complained about finding a brochure for a religious event in a lobby kiosk, and said she couldn't understand why a spa tub was on display in the Independence Center lobby with an advertisement from a spa company on it. The answer from a Board member: The spa was on display because it was the grand prize in the Fitness Journey promotion sponsored by the Fitness Department.
And so ended another interesting and informative Town Hall Forum.
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Now I'd like to relate to you several conversations I had with members of what one might call the Bob Frank Support Group in the Independence Center Lobby after the Town Hall Forum.
I approached Rana Goodman and asked her if she would have written about me in a highly critical manner if I had behaved as Kay Frank did at the Forum. To her credit, Rana replied, in front of several witnesses, that she probably would do so. But of course she has yet to write anything about Kay's disruptive behavior, and I would assume she won't be doing so in the near future.
Meanwhile, while I was talking with several residents, Kay Frank charged up to the group and accused me of lying about a certain e-mail. -- This requires some explanation, which I will now provide. A team of the recently established Trumpets Working Group designed a simple, one-page resident survey scheduled to be delivered as an insert with your November issue of the Spirit. The survey was sent to Board members with an invitation for them to comment on it or suggest minor tweaking. All the Board members except one gave the survey their blessing, except for a minor suggestion here and there. But Bob Frank objected to pretty much the entire survey, stating his objections in a five-page, single-spaced typed memorandum that he delivered to a mailing list that included members of the Board.
When I received a copy of Bob's epistle, I wrote back to him with some comments explaining why his comments constituted overkill and why we just wanted to get an opening snapshot of resident opinion without going into great detail at this early stage.
What did Bob Frank do with my reply? He immediately accused Roz Berman of sharing confidential Board e-mails with me.
What Bob failed to note is that his fellow Board members were not the only addressees on his long message. He also sent it to the Community Manager, Assistant Community Manager, and -most relevant to this story- to Patti Shock, the chairperson of our Trumpets Working Group.
The Trumpets Working Group leader shares such messages with her group members unless there is a reason not to. So she immediately routed Bob's comments to the entire group in order that we could see what Bob wrote, and that is what I responded to when I wrote Bob Frank.
Back to the story: As I stated, Kay Frank approached me and accused me of lying about where I received the message from. She reiterated that Roz must have given it to me, claiming that Patti Shock was not on Bob's distribution. I told Kay she was wrong, because in fact I knew from whom I received the message.
Upon arriving home that evening, I pulled the message out of my "saved" file and forwarded it to Bob and Kay, as received from Patti with all Yahoo ads and headers attached, because Patti created a Yahoo group for our Trumpets team. The message clearly shows that Patti was an original addressee on Bob's mailing list and that Patti had forwarded it to us.
The response from the Franks? Dead silence, which is often the case when accusers are irrefutably proved wrong. The best face I can put on this is that Bob Frank sends such a volume of mail to so many people that he can't keep track of who his addressees are.
The final post-meeting conversation came as the result of some hostility from a resident named Al, whose last name I'll withhold to save him embarrassment. Al angrily asked me why I can never write anything nice about Bob Frank (which is simply not true) but I never write anything negative about Roz Berman. In the midst of this discussion, I asked him why, when I was traveling at the 25 MPH speed limit on Hampton not long ago, he blew by me at -I'm not exaggerating- about 60 MPH.
Al's reply? "I'll drive at whatever speed I want to. If I get a ticket, I get a ticket."
Warning to all residents: Watch out for Al when you are out and about on our SCA roadways. He has a real lead foot when he's behind the wheel.
Dave thanks for the detailed recap of the October 22 Town Hall Forum. This timely recap and the timely information you have supply in the past concerning SCA is appreciated by myself and I assume many other SCA residents. Keep it coming and thanks again.
Concerning today's recap, I have a negative comment. My negative comment relates to your final three paragraphs concerning a person named "Al". I think the comments related to Al distracts from the balance of your reporting on the subject matter. I think your comments about Al maybe personnel to you or should have been addressed in a separate topic. Then again, this is your site and you are incharge of content.
In conclusion, keep up the timely and good reporting.
Mel
Posted by: Mel Verly | October 25, 2007 at 06:17 AM
Mel, your observation is a good one, so I'll briefly tell you why I appended the several personal items at the end of the report, taking pains to note that these were sort of a postscript. I do try hard to separate my factual reporting from personal opinions as much as possible, whch is why I made clear that the meeting report was done and I was moving on to post-meeting conversations.
I was concerned that if I posted those items as a separate message, they would be viewed as an attempt to put more importance on them than intended, so I wanted to just put them into the context of the entire evening. As for Al, rest assured that I was restrained in describing our conversation, for he was really quite agitated, and that's putting it mildly.
Posted by: David Berman | October 25, 2007 at 07:49 AM
sorry to hear about Al. he is due for a heart attack if he keeps that up, hopefully not while he is driving around me! 90% to pass the budget! Is that occupied homes or just of the people that vote? WE NEED URGENTLY TO CHANGE THAT OR MOBILIZE FOLKS TO VOTE AGAINST THE RAISES. I can see a little raise but that is % they were talking about earlier is a no brainer.
Posted by: alan | October 25, 2007 at 06:01 PM
I'm responding to Nancy Schnair and her comments concerning what Pulte is committed to doing about repairing homes with the REHAU plumnbing system. My SCA View email advised REHAU homeowners that Pulte is now offering the option of a cash settlement in lieu of a repair. Homeowners can opt for a repair (which must be signed up for on the REHAU website)or they may ask for a cash settlement by contacting Pulte using the REHAU hotline telephone number, 914-4861.
Posted by: Ron Johnson | October 26, 2007 at 05:37 AM
after reading the item on rejecting the proposed budget again I see it takes 90% against the proposed budget to stop it. It should be just the opposite 90% to pass the budget. If 11% vote to pass it that is all it takes and its passed, that does not seem right to me, how about you other folks? You know when I get screwed I like to get kissed too.
Posted by: mike | October 26, 2007 at 10:31 AM
Mike: Getting 90% to vote for anything, including a budget, would be a virtual impossibility, which would lead to operational paralysis for the Association.
To be precise, it doesn't take 11% of the residents to approve the budget. Rather, it takes a recommendation from the Finance Committee and a majority Board vote to do so. There is no procedure for residents to vote FOR a budget, but only to reject a budget.
At the October 25 Board meeting, the Board voted to ADOPT the budget, which should lead to ratification on November 15 because there is no chance that 90% of residents would be voting to reject.
Very few residents participated in the budget process by attending the 20 or so meetings at which indivudal departmental budget proposals were analyzed and challenged, and at which dry runs of the budget presentation were conducted. And barely 100 hundred residents attended yesterday's Board meeting at which the formal budget presentation was made.
In an Association as large as ours, the key to running a relatively tight financial ship is having qualified residents serving in the key positions that develop and monitor the budget. In my more than seven years of living here, I believe the current Finance Committee, which has four CPAs on it, is the best Finance Committee we've had. And as the Finance Committee's Jack Troia pointed out at the conclusion of his budget presentation at the Board meeting, even with the 2008 dues increase, our first after five years with no increases, our 2008 dues in the amount of a reasonable $92 per month give us an amenities package and lifestyle that would be the envy of most who live in other seniors communities.
Posted by: David Berman | October 26, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Why are we even considering revisiting the 35/45 MPH speed limit question again? If you've lived here more than two years you must remember the 90 day "test period" we went through which proved NOTHING! Also, these are NOT Sun City Anthem streets. They are public streets used by Coventry, Country Club and Anthem Highland residents as well as future use by Inspirada and whatever devlopments are in store for us. Can't we stop beating a dead horse!!
Posted by: Roy P | October 26, 2007 at 03:35 PM
I use a golf cart to get around Sun City whenever possible; it saves my car from those short "stop and go" trips, and its better for the ecology (besides being fun).
When I was at the vendor fair last weekend I met Dave Servello. I asked him if he had any maps of the golf paths in Sun City, that I might travel safely while not using Anthem Parkway. He said that he did not, and he was not interested in obtaining them.
He told me that he wanted the speed limit lowered to 35 mph, and suggested that instead of using paths I should sign his petition.
I told him that we'd gone through this less than two years ago, with the residents and the City deciding that the current speed limit was appropriate, and that I supported it.
I then again asked him if he could somehow obtain maps of the golf cart paths and where they went, that it would be in the best interest and safety of our owners who use carts to get to the center, Vons, etc. This time he made it very clear to me that he has no interest in doing this, but only in having the speed lowered. I was floored!
I guess he doesn't represent my interests as well as I thought he did. I could have gone all day without learning that.
Posted by: Fern | October 27, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Fern, from the sounds of it you dont golf. But go into the golf club house and tell them that you have some friends coming out to play golf in Vegas. They would loike the booklet that has the detail hole by hole lay out. That booklet also has a small layout of the total course. By looking at the booklet for a while, I beleive you can figure out what you want. Don let them give you just the standard scoure card.
Posted by: dan m | October 27, 2007 at 02:42 AM
Dan,
I don't even know where the clubhouse is (its not in Buckman's, is it?) and I don't know if I could figure out the map. But thanks.
Posted by: Fern | October 27, 2007 at 08:04 AM
Fern,
As you enter, the restaurant is straight ahead and to the right. To the left are 2 cash registers, which is the golf operation/club house. Go to either register and they should be able to help you.
Posted by: dan m | October 27, 2007 at 08:34 AM
Thanks, Dan.
Posted by: Fern | October 27, 2007 at 08:59 AM
today i had someone pass doing 60mph down the hill on anthem. I speeded up just to make sure of his speed. we dont need a 35mph but what would help is a speeding photo system like they have other places that will take the drivers picture and speed and mail them a speeding ticket. that will get the speeders attention real quick.
Posted by: aln | October 27, 2007 at 05:21 PM
Fern, the golf course is private property and you are not allowed to use them to get around.
Posted by: john | October 29, 2007 at 04:23 PM
John,
I was talking about the paths like the one on Williamsport which go from one village to another. Why would they be there if not for me to use? There are no golf holes there.
Posted by: Fern | October 30, 2007 at 10:06 AM
Fern,
Then there is no need to go to the golf course they have no idea where those trails go.
Posted by: john | October 30, 2007 at 04:41 PM